Episode 83: Growing Your Audience and Going Viral with Ben DeCastro

Today I’m really excited to have a guest expert on board.  This is Ben Castro and he’s going to tell us a little bit about who he is, what he’s about and what he’s been working on, and I tell you it’s something really, really funny and there’s a few of you out there that are actually going to love this, so he’s going to mention that in a minute but today, the whole focus of this segment is to help you understand how some people have really grown their social media following, their email list and their whole business using online marketing strategies, so I’m really excited to welcome you, Ben; thanks for joining me today all the way from Rhode Island; or tonight, your time?

Ben: Yeah.  Though it is night-time here and it’s actually DeCastro; I’m not related to Fidel or any of the Cuban family there, so don’t worry, it’s a common…it happens all the time but it’s night time here and I’m the voice of the Pawtucket Red Sox which is the team right before the players get to the Boston Red Sox so I’m the stadium announcer, so I get that fun job of…Your attention, fans.  Now batting for the PawSox…Number 38, centre fielder, Bruce Lancastillo(?)

Nicky: Love it!

Ben: I’ve got the pipes, so I just got done doing a game, they lost.  What are you going to do? It happens but it’s my honour to be here.

Nicky: I’ll have to boost you up, boost up your energy!

Ben: Absolutely, absolutely.  We’re doing fine: we’re rockin’ and rollin’, we’re rockin’ and rollin’ but a pleasure; I love what you’ve done, this whole podcast that you’ve put together, I think you’re well into almost into your eighties as far as the number of podcasts you’ve done, which is really great, and I think the information that you have to offer is excellent, so I’m really excited to be a part of it.

Nicky: Fantastic.  And Ben and I actually met in a social media marketing group and this group is just quite incredible.  I love it; I’m always getting stuff out of it and I guess the way I like to work with my clients and in my group and things like that is kind of break it down even further to make it simple that people can actually implement because I find that us marketing geeks like to know all the ins and outs and the latest stuff; that’s not always applicable to everyone and you can kind of get overwhelmed with the amount of new things that you can try, so today I really want to get into about how did you grow your business, what are some of the things you did in the early stages and what kind of things are you working on at the moment?

Ben: Yeah, well it’s great questions.  So, I am a social media marketing coach and that’s really where I focused and I started, launched my business about a year ago independently. Prior to that I was the marketing and promotion PR consultant or person, rather, for a large furniture retailer in the New England area up here in Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Connecticut, we kind of covered the whole North East and so for fifteen years I dealt with a budget that was well over ten million dollars so far as advertising and being that it was fifteen years that I did that, I saw the rise and fall of a lot of different new initiatives so they had the whole boom come out and that kind of levelled off and then we’ve had some social media sites that have risen to the top and have done excellent, and we’ve had others that have kinda come in and then they kinda fade out real quick, so, being part of that and really seeing how all that works on a furniture side, decided to turn more into a personal brand as I’ve been a musician my entire life, I started playing accordion when I was five; played drums, played piano and everything, actually in 2000 I played keyboards for Ringling Brothers Circus which, if you been following in the news recently, closed but have a lot of friends that unfortunately were part of that whole closure but it was a really cool part of my life, made some pretty impressive friends and again, all I was, was the keyboard player; usually the other friends of mine, they were on the high wire or jumping into cages with sixteen tigers which…good luck!  I just played the sound track but being a performer and being somebody who likes to entertain and be part of that, the social media side of things really led towards growing my own personal brand; I’ve got that blue, that coveted blue check-mark like you have on Facebook, which you cannot even apply for any more.


Nicky: Really?  I didn’t know that, Ben.

Ben: Facebook now makes the determination if they’re going to give it to you on their own.  You can’t apply for it, you can’t submit anything.  It is…you’ve got to rest on your laurels so…good job to both of us for getting it!

Nicky: Yeah, well done!

Ben: We’re the same as Beyoncé and Jay Z!

Nicky: That makes me feel really good!  So, when you started, when you went out and started doing your personal brand, what were some of the things that you did to kind of create your own audience and build a business as a personal brand?

Ben: Sure, well I started, like most people I had just a Facebook page, like a friend profile and I had a lot of people following me on that and from time to time, I would create funny videos, go on little rants or just sing in the car, whatever.  It was my favourite thing to do is make people laugh; if I can make people laugh, have a good time, do something just insane, whatever, that’s great.  If I can make their day better by making them smile and even if I have to endure a little bit of pain, I’ll do it.  So, I launched the actual Ben DeCastro page, the white page, about two years ago and really just kinda kept it on the back-burner but I knew that’s kind of where I wanted to go.  When I left the furniture store, which was Cardi’s Furniture, when I left them, I was on my own for about three or four weeks and then I created a video that went viral.  1.6 million views.

Nicky: Wow!

Ben: Yeah, so I went from four hundred…four hundred and fifteen people liking my page on Facebook to two thousand in one weekend; that’s a lot.

Nicky: What was the video about?

Ben: Believe it or not, it was just about the State of Rhode Island; we’re the smallest State in the United States of America and we’re like the little kid brother, we’ve got a chip on our shoulder, people like to pick on us but we’re kind of the tough guy, the Italian…oh, whoa….we kind of get really defensive and it was at a time where the State was going through a bit of an identity crisis; we have a Governor who was trying to create this new campaign which was just really weird and I said, you know, screw this, I can do my own thing here and people really took onto it and so that launched the car pooling series that I do which you may have seen?

Nicky: Yep, I have seen that.

Ben: Which actually just won an award: it’s the Best of Rhode Island for new web series, so pretty excited about that and as soon as you come to America with that little one you’ve got, we’ll put them in the car too, we’ll do a nice interview for you.  It’ll be a lot of fun!

Nicky: That sounds great!  I’ve got three kids so yeah, we’ll need a minivan!

Ben: We’ll get an RV, we’ll get an RV, don’t worry about that!

Nicky: You can probably hear a few of them right now actually!

Ben: That’s all right, that’s all right.  Do what you’ve gotta do!  It’s great.

Nicky: Excellent.  So, I think like a lot of people I personally haven’t had a video or post go viral, but I’ve definitely assessed and looked at how things go viral and really just being on-topic of what people are really talking about right now and making something just that little bit, a little bit away from what the typical opinion is, yeah.  So, well done, that’s quite impressive, it’s not like something you can pay for and do it like that, so that’s really cool.

Ben: That viral video cost me seven dollars in United States money.  Two dollars for the marker, five dollars for a brick of paper, and it was literally signs about the State of Rhode Island that I just flipped up in a four minute video, and everybody asked me afterwards, how do I make a viral video?  I said great, first step is just go catch lightning in a bottle; after you do that, buy a lottery ticket and hit it big and then you should be right on streak to making it…it’s hit or miss but one of the things I’ve worked with, with clients, because I do have clients that I work with on a regular basis, is you don’t necessarily have to have a video that goes a million or two million hits: you can be viral within your industry; you can be viral within your area where five, six thousand views of a video, if it’s good quality content and it’s delivering something that people are benefiting from, that’s so much more viral than anything could have been five, ten years ago.


Nicky: Yep.

Ben: In America we have this video show, well we did when I was growing up, I’m thirty six years old, called America’s Funniest Videos.  You may remember the television show…

Nicky: We’ve got Australia’s Funniest Home Videos, yep.

Ben: We use the same letters. A-F-V; it’s great, it works out well.  But that was the whole thing is, OK, they got these home video submissions and something just happens to happen; well now you have literally millions of hours’ worth of content being created at once and the videos are just everywhere, so it’s how do you identify and how do you really connect with those people?  One of the things I’ve done is I’ve created videos just off topics, whether it be fidget spinners or the fact that they don’t put Ziplock tops in cereal boxes and I’m just making fun of it, I’m having a little bit of angst with it and people laugh, and the best part is I get messages from people that are like, you know, cereals should be this, you shouldn’t talk about…it’s like, you know what?  You got one shot at that merry-go-round, OK, you’ve got one shot at this life; if you’re going to spend your time critiquing me on how I should make a joke, I can’t help you!  But to the casual, common person, I try to find a topic that’s funny with them and just have fun with it.  And the flip side of that is when I work with businesses and the clients that I work with, I tell them all the time: listen, you could take a TV ad and put it on Facebook; it’s gonna suck; nobody cares because people are not on Facebook or YouTube or Instagram or any of those other…they’re not there to…it’s not in place of the TV, it’s something different.  And when you do that, it doesn’t resonate, but if you can create content like what you do with your videos, your coaching videos that you do for your platform, or with what I do with my stupid comedy on my Facebook, on my LinkedIn, I actually do videos that are coachable, business stuff; I make the content appropriate for the platform.

Nicky: Yeah, well that’s a really good point because I see a lot of people prolifically posting on Facebook, sharing it to Instagram and LinkedIn and it’s like, every platform, people are on there for a particular style of content and you really need to target that, target and create specifically for each content but I see it a lot and people are like, oh I’m doing this all the time and they’re trying to leverage the content but it doesn’t work; you do need to alter it for each platform.  You can keep the same topic but do it a little bit different.

Ben: Yeah, absolutely.

Nicky: I did have a question about the viral video and things like that, even going viral in your industry.  What do you do to take advantage of that extra traffic?  Do you try and get them on an email list or are you just trying to stay engaged with them on the social media platform?  How does that work?

Ben: For what I do, I will go through; not a lot of people take advantage of this.  Years ago, they removed what they called the Like Gate on, where before you had to Like a person or a business’s page in order to see the content there.  Zuckerberg in all his wisdom, and let’s be honest with each other, Facebook is the kingpin; Facebook is absolutely the social media kingpin; if there’s only one thing that you can do, I tell people: forget about Snapchat, forget about everything else.  If you only have time to do one thing and do it well, it’s Facebook, because that’s where you’re going to have the best success, that’s where everybody is.  What you do is, if you go into your…people who like the content, the video, the post, the picture, whatever it may be, you can invite those people to like your page, and it’s a free gate, it’s a free thing that actually they took away for a week and people flipped and the mindset is, OK, well if a person took the time to like the video or the content, whatever it is, then perhaps it’s OK to open that door for me as a regular person to invite them, say hey, listen, maybe you might like the other stuff.  I can put the invitation out there.  Probably one out of every five will go ahead and accept the invitation and Like the page, but when you’ve got twenty three thousand people who like a video, that’s a big difference, that’s a big deal and it doesn’t cost you a dime; you can pay for Like campaigns, you can pay for that stuff, so, to take advantage of that and to capitalise on it, that’s really how I’ve done it, I’ve always done it and again, you guys have Starbucks out there?


Nicky: Yeah, there’s not many left, though!

Ben: Well, good!  Dunkin’ Donuts is the way to go.  But they came out with a drink, you may have seen it take over, called the Unicorn.

Nicky: Yeah, I did see that.

Ben: All right, well I made a video with…we have a video that’s been cycling around the States for a long time, Sarah McLachlan, the artist, and she’s singing….(falsetto singing)…In the arms of the angel) and it’s an ad for the dog shelters, so you see these puppies shivering and it’s sad, I know it is, but it’s like two o’clock in the morning and it’s….(falsetto singing)…go away from here… it’s like…these puppies need a home and so it’s sad,  Listen: I make donations to my local shelter to help out, I’m not making fun of that, but what I did was I stood up in front of a Starbucks and I just started holding up signs: “Stop Killing Unicorns”.  “Unicorn Frappuccinos Made With Bits Of Real Unicorn”  “Mythical Or Not: They’re Still Real”; just these stupid slides, slow motion, because it was a topical thing and it was funny and that went, I think went close to thirty thousand views and it’s having fun.  If somebody can laugh, my job’s done for the day; I’ve made one person laugh, I don’t care if it’s my grandmother.  Jeez, be happy, it’s too short.

Nicky: Marketing is fun.  Doing this kind of thing is actually meant to be really fun and it’s not meant to be overly complicated.  I think once you realise that, like what you’re doing, you’re trying to connect with your audience and doing something fun.  I love doing that, I love doing live videos, I love doing the podcasts and just finding fun ways to connect with your audience in a creative way, but you’ve got to be yourself and I think you certainly cannot take on board what other people are saying about, if they don’t agree with what you’re saying, that’s really not your problem.   

Ben: It’s theirs!

Nicky: But you know, sometimes, especially starting out, that can be one of the biggest blocks is feeling like, oh man, I can’t put this out, or what is my grandma going to say about this?  But yeah, I think it’s just meant to be really fun and I love how you have also got your book out as well which I saw that, I thought it was the funniest thing I’d seen in quite some time.

Ben: There it is.  Because Your Mommy Does CrossFit, it’s a light-hearted look at doing CrossFit through the eyes of a child and you can’t see this now because I’m wearing something very slender and dark colours I’m told look good for that factor but you know what?  Benny hasn’t been to the gym in a long time, right, and I just talked about myself in the third person in the name I hate, OK, and that’s a fact, OK?  So it was December Fourth 2016, I literally had this idea while I was taking a shower; I said, kids are like, because I was listening to the radio and they were talking about some CrossFit competition which obviously it’s huge and I’m thinking like, these kids that grew up and Mommy’s wearing this shirt that says…Lift Or Die, it’s like, why does Mommy say Lift Or Die on her shirt?  I thought I was her inspiration and her motivation for everything in life.  OK, why is there a giant tyre in the back yard?  It doesn’t fit on the car, OK, that’s pollution.  That’s bad.  So it kind of flowed and I wrote the actual book in two quarters of a Patriots game, went to Church…Grandma, I went to Church that Sunday…and then came home and watching the New England Patriots, I wrote it in two quarters and my wife is an educator, she went to school for teaching; she taught English in the Honduras for a period of time, she’s lived over near you folks over there in New Zealand for a little while, so I handed her the laptop and said hey, take a look at this, tell me what you think.  She just looked and she shook…I can’t believe it.  I don’t know if you’ve discovered this, Nicky?  I only have a kindergarten diploma.


Nicky: No….

Ben: I dropped out of school after Eighth Grade.  I failed.  I was just…I have ADHD really bad.  Legit ADHD, not the kind where it’s like, oh gee, my kid’s a little hyper, yeah, he’s five, let him go run outside.  No, I have it really bad.  Somebody is changing the channel very five seconds in my brain; the fact that I’m focused on you right now is probably because you have this really amazing backdrop of reclaimed wood, different colours and everything, very…I like that, it’s very…it’s re-purposeful.  So, I just went with that and to be candid I said, OK, well this is something cool, there’s a target market for it and what I did is the drawings in it is actually drawn by a friend of mine, who incidentally left the company she was working for the same day I left the furniture store I was working for and she does similar to what I do but she’s talented with drawing and I can just make words happen, so she drew is and so we’re in it together and we said, let’s try it; it’s something extra on the side, she did it all with the Apple iPad Pro and the pen and stuff and I can barely make stick figures look good, OK?

Nicky: I’m the same as you!

Ben: My talent is strictly music: that’s it, that’s it.  But she did a great job, I kept it as local as possible and that’s the whole thing, I incorporated friends and tried to get people involved and that’s the whole thing and when companies…and when I coach companies, I know you work with companies, I tell them all the time: listen, you may do something that’s business to business, that’s your bag, that’s what you do and that’s fine.  You need to have a social media presence, but getting people excited about it can seem odd, like, oh gee, we make our widgets or all we do are make these things that nobody cares about.  Well, you have a team of people, humans who are running your business and making things happen and as an owner of a business or as a marketer, you can say listen, let’s take a Frisbee out or let’s take a Baggo game out or something, let’s add a video camera, even if it’s just an iPhone, take a video of it, put it together, put a compilation, give away gift cards to a coffee shop or for ice cream or something, then put that up and say hey, listen, we have a good time when we work here.  Or I worked with a company out of Oklahoma that they build these really, really amazing church sets for kids churches and stuff, these really interactive things; I was sitting with them at a conference I was speaking at in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and I said, you guys have actuators and an actuator’s a thing that lifts things up and down real fast, a little piston and they were like, yeah, yeah.  I said, go buy a bag of mini marshmallows.  Put one on there and fire the thing up in the air and see how many of your staff can catch ’em in their mouth, and it’s a video and people will laugh and they can share it and that’s…that’s how you start to create viral-ness and build that brand and have fun.  I do that with myself, whether it be out on the car-pooling or whatever: there’s ways out there and that’s really what I do, I work with these businesses, I’m like a therapist…how do you want to have fun today?  It’s like, sit on the couch, let me talk to you about having fun.  So that’s really the whole book, that’s the whole mission behind what I do.

Nicky: Yeah, that’s awesome.  Very cool.

Ben: I talk a lot, I’m sorry!

Nicky: No, I think that’s…I really love the accent actually!

Ben: As if I didn’t just talk enough for three hours at a ball game…fans, direct your attention over to left field through to Melvin Tire Pros Tires, presented by Melvin’s Tire Pros of Lincoln, Rhode Island.  It’s just what I do: read words, talk, you know.  My wife likes the fact that I’m doing this now because then I’ll be tired by the time it’s time to go to bed…you know, finally sleep instead of stay up late…what do we do next?

Nicky: What do we do next?  Yeah, my husband’s a bit like you; he likes to stay up late.  I’m more of an early morning person.

Ben: You’re a Mum, you’ve got stuff to do.  You’ve got to beat the kids to anything that happens; you’ve got to be like four steps ahead.  You are on a mission…

Nicky: Absolutely.  Even in the mornings, I get up at four usually, just so I can eat breakfast on my own and maybe have a shower.


Ben: It’s the little things, isn’t it?  It’s the little things in life.  The little victories, that’s all I need!

Nicky: And when I do, I just feel so much better, I’m like, yes, and so when they start waking up, anywhere from five o’clock in the morning, I’m ready…I’m ready!  Bring it.

Ben: Bring it on, let’s go!

Nicky: Exactly!  So, before we kind of wrap this up, I just wanted to ask you for your three tips.  So, my audience are mostly people who are trying to get some traction; they’re either just starting or they’ve hit a plateau with growing their audience and their business.  What are three tips to kind of get some more traction that you would recommend for people, trying to do it themselves as well, not necessarily getting a company on board?

Ben: I wrote these down and I thought about it.  The first one’s actually something we’ve already talked about and that was, customising the content for each specific site.  And what I tell people is, stop being lazy, OK?  You can take the same video and post it up on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter…you could do that but the tags don’t correlate.  Don’t just push the one button, oh yeah, it’s going to do everything.  You know what that is?  That’s laziness and if a person’s looking to you, a business is looking to you and then when they see that and you don’t make those connections, especially if you’re tagging people or businesses, people that you work with: folks, it doesn’t translate over and you’re missing those opportunities because you didn’t want to take an extra two minutes?  What?  What?  So, blow that and that is going to…and listen, oh my word it drives me nuts when I see people sharing a YouTube link on Facebook.  Nicky, I’m going to let your people know a secret: Facebook and YouTube hate each other; they’re not friends, they’re not…Mark Zuckerberg, that’s one thing he doesn’t own, OK?  And that in the grand algorithm of things, if it’s a video that people will keep them on that platform of Facebook versus going over to YouTube, that’s what’s going to get the priority, that’s what’s going to get that extra look.  My second tip: unless you have a team behind you, it is virtually impossible to be on every social media platform and do it well.  Listen: major labels, major companies, major celebrities out there, they all have their entourage, they have teams of people; you look at Coles…I don’t know if you have Coles, it’s a large Department Store here in America.

Nicky: Similar.

Ben: The Chewbacca mum, that whole thing that went viral: Coles had, and this is the other thing is, Coles had a social media plan, had a plan in place and a strategy and the strategy wasn’t saying, OK, well if somebody does this with a product, we’re going to do this and this.  The strategy was, hey, if something starts to take off, we need to have a conversation and these are the people who have to be in the conversation, that’s the plan and that’s what they did and that’s how they absolutely won the internet with that one.  But unless you have the team behind you, pick what you could do and do it well.  Listen: Snapchat?  I don’t have time for it.  I don’t do it.  Twitter?  I barely use it.  I gather information from it.

Nicky: I’m exactly the same, yep.

Ben: Well my audience is on Facebook and Instagram; that’s the two places and I’m better at Facebook than I am on Instagram and I know that and I understand that but I also have the YouTube where I put videos up as well because not everybody is on Facebook but no matter what you do…and the other one’s LinkedIn.  LinkedIn is huge right now, if you’re a business to business person, you need a person just on your staff that’s doing nothing but curating that LinkedIn content, finding that great quality content.  My last tip, and this is really simple for anybody on anything.  My brother-in-law, my uncle, I’ve got a lot of family that are Ministers, Pastors for Churches and last summer I wrote a blogpost called The Beatitudes of Social Media,  And for those who are of the Christian faith, the Beatitudes is that whole passage where it’s like, blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted; and blessed are those who eat ice cream, for they shall become fat.  So what I did is I took the Beatitudes and I changed it to be like…they’re just kind of…I messed it up, very sacrilegious, I’m sure that…whatever.  OK, if you…and one of them was, you have to Like in order to be Liked.  No matter what you do, no matter what business you’re in, if you can take fifteen to twenty minutes a week and Like things from your business page, not from my private page but from your business page and when you do that, if it’s a local high school, if it’s a local sports team or a local thing, a local community group, they do something great: if you Like that and if you comment that from underneath, you start…oh wow, this organisation, wow, they’re really active; oh wow, look at this Church, they liked the fact that the basketball team won; it’s like, oh yeah, now what happens is social media becomes social again!


Nicky: Yep.

Ben: Oh my Lord!  Social?  It’s a two-way street.  If all I did was just deliver content, content, content and I did nothing to support any of my friends, nothing to help give an opportunity for somebody to draw…I’m just…I’m not being social, I’m just being that one-way person that doesn’t shut up, kinda like what I’ve done to this podcast, but I don’t get to talk to people from Australia all that often, so this is wicked cool.  Oh, it’s all right and do you know what?  To you guys I don’t sound like an uneducated wank; it’s all good!

Nicky: Well that’s good to know, that’s good to know.

Ben: So, like I said, you’re showing other people what you care about and that’s really what it is.  People just want…they want to feel loved and listen, I’m going to give you a bonus one because I’m Italian, you know, that’s what we do, we give you a little extra, you know, have a little extra spaghetti, it’s good for you!  Listen: scheduling time is critical, it is so important that you put it on your calendar, you block it out because if not, it’s just going to…the viral videos happen instantly; great quality content takes thought, it takes time.  When I work with businesses they’re like, oh, why does it take you an hour to create a Facebook post for us?  Because I need to do the research to make sure that what I’m putting as your mouthpiece out there from you, I’ve got to make sure that’s going to resonate and I can’t just guess and think like, oh yeah, hey!  Because you know what?  It’s not going to be anything.

Nicky: Yeah, and I think the more time you…obviously there’s a limit, you don’t want to be spending hours and hours, but the more time you do put into it once is going to give you much more traction than just putting out the quantity of content and there’s been a huge shift: five years ago it was just about quantity, just getting stuff out there as quick as you can, as often as you can, whereas now it’s like that big shift; people are just bombarded and they’re really just looking for quality content that’s going to give them value so yeah, that’s a really good tip and I think a lot of people miss that because they’re trying to schedule on these…automate everything and I think that’s not necessarily the way to go.

Ben: I agree.

Nicky: If you’re missing out, you forget that people reading this are actually humans and they don’t just stick to a schedule that you set a month ago and keeping things in context of what’s going on at the time and changes that are happening, you can’t do that when you schedule so far in advance.  I schedule my podcast only a few weeks out because things change, things change so quick but there’s a bit of time involved in doing the podcast so I want to make sure that something’s going to come out on a Monday morning but yeah, that’s a really good point to schedule it in, it’s gotta happen!

Ben: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.  So, how many more hours are we going here, Nicky?  Are we going all day long or…

Nicky: Well, actually, my children are calling me so we might have to wrap that up.  But thank you so much…

Ben: Awesome!

Nicky: …for your time today, I’ve really appreciated it.  I think our listeners here are going to get a lot out of it and I will, as soon as this comes out, I’ll share it with you so if people listening have any questions…

Ben: Love to answer ’em, absolutely.

Nicky: We’ll put a link to where they can find you on social media as well and all of those links will be in the show notes.  And don’t forget to join me on Wednesday at 9.00am, Australian Eastern Standard Time, for my weekly Facebook Live, where we’ll go into a few more of the topics that you shared today and how people can start implementing that in their business.  So, thank you so much, I hope you do get some sleep tonight you’re not too energised from all of this happening!

Ben: I’m gonna go do something crazy, I don’t know, maybe re-organise the books in the library: who knows?  We’ll see what happens!

Nicky: Lovely, that sounds good!

Ben: Rotate the tyres on the car!  Whatever we’ve gotta do!

Nicky: And I really look forward to grabbing a copy of your book as well, that looks hilarious, I can’t wait to get that.

Ben: It’s going in the mail tomorrow!

Nicky: Awesome, thank you so much and I will talk to you later, bye!

Ben: Thank you Nicky, appreciate it.

Where to find Ben:

Facebook: @BIGBENDeCastro
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